reading this book is like coming home

[jade_sabre]

OH MY GOD

IT HAS BEEN OVER A YEAR SINCE I READ THE QUEEN OF ATTOLIA

no wonder this reread feels so good. especially after Nobody's Princess because I am suddenly sick of reading about chicks who sneak out and learn how to fight and do "manly" things because "girls are just as good as boys at manly things and who says they're manly anyway" I mean not that I disagree with that sentiment but it's all well and good for Helen that she gets to sneak out and learn this stuff but you know what think of all the other women who couldn't. (Also I think, philia_fan, I finally understand what you mean by "why does this book have a sequel that makes me like it less" syndrome.)

One of the cool things about Attolia is that while she can embroider up a storm, she's also a really competent leader. These other books seem to dismiss the other women doing all the embroidering because it's so boring and all they ever do is gossip. Well, Attolia not only embroider, but also spied and prepared her husband's poison. And yes, she envied Eddis the lack of velvets and the running and playing with her cousins, and yes, she was unhappy, but she still ended up holding onto her country and having a ton of power and staying on the playing field until she finally found someone with whom she could share her burden, without becoming any less of what she was.

One of the things I liked a lot about Crown Duel was the fact that the women had all sorts of secret codes and undercurrents of intrigue that were all communicated through things like fans. I think sometimes in an author's haste to provide a really strong female character, she ignores all the wonderful chances for subtlety that were, in fact, what most women had to deal in.

Also, this time around? The parallels of Gen's and Attolia's insomnia. Will be trying to form some sort of thoughts about this.

TIME FOR NOTORIOUS

Comments

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

I *so* agree with you.

It's almost reverse denial of the strength of women in the past, to make them do bull-headed and man-only things to be true heroines. The preponderance of them is primarily the issue, I think--some of the best characters are bull-headed and play with swords or disguise themselves for a walk-about or play chess.

(Have you read Seven Daughters, Seven Sons?)

But women have been going through with arranged marriages and birthing babies and sewing sheets AND running their husbands thus the world or other deviously feminine things that are quite amazing. And not acknowledging that is very sad.

Thanks for making me rant, JADE. >.<


Whoa. I never saw the parallel there with the insomnia. What a find! Lucky duck...

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's definitely a preponderance thing. Like, in this book, I was fine with Helen learning to use swords and stuff--oh, this could be interesting--but then it started going out of control. Like, I don't want to read about her going after the Golden Fleece. I want to read about her taking the lessons she learned and applying them to life at home.

(No I have not. Is it good?)

ANY TIME, RED.

I just can't figure out what it means! He can't sleep because he's a thief, she can't sleep because she cut off his hand...he has nightmares because she cut off his hand...*keeps working*

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

Seven Daughters and Seven Sons is generally a favorite with anyone I respect who's read it. (Well, girls. But not only girls.)

Eugenides is nocturnal, this is established. Since Attolia is in so much jeopardized power, I think she's used to needing to operate at night, too, though not as much as him. And there's the whole sneaking-through-her-room thing which is a trope Twilight warped, but has it own little illicit sparkle anyway. So it's like a chain-reaction, just like everything about their relationship.

Whoa, I think I just struck on something new.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Have you seen "My Big Fat Greek Wedding?" Where the woman says, "Yes, the man is the head of the family. But the woman is the neck, and can turn the head wherever she wants." (Words to that effect, I don't remember the exact quote).

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

I *love* that woman, and that movie. All the characters really, though MR. Right could have had slightly more personality? (Though maybe it would have been a bit much, that movie was kind of personality

IT IS TRU-FF.

And I think that Anglo culture had a lot less of a check-and-balance than most cultures had, some getting lost in an industrialized, institution-driven culture.
Women have figured out how to have power. Granted, on the individual level, some have suffered a lot in chauvinist cultures, but many tribal cultures had that power balance ingrained in their *economic structures*.

Fascinating stuff...

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

*thinks Jade might like her WIP!!!*

[keestone.livejournal.com]

I like both type of story. Dealing With Dragons is my most recent sanity-read, and I've always loved how Cimorene just walks out of the conventional fairy tale life. I also just recently got reminded of how much I loved The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle. And by-the-bye, did you know that hundreds of women pretended to be men and fought as soldiers on both sides of the Civil War? At the same time, I love love love Little Women, and all the subtle negotiations of independent womenhood (both conventional and non) in it. I also love how Lois McMaster Bujold explores the usually-ignored female power structures in a patriarchal society on Barrayar.

What really annoys me is when a Calamity Jane gets Doris Day-ed.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I mean, I do too, but there's a proliferation of MALONE IS THE BEST PERSON EVER AND I LOVE HER OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGYES I WISH I WAS MALONE BECAUSE SHE IS THE PRETTIEST OF ALL THE ANYONE EVER IN THE UNIVERSE EVER YES OHMIGOSH SHE IS SO COOL I AM NOT FIT TO BE IN HER PRESENCE HOLYCRAP MUFFINS.

I'll let you guess who wrote that.

Anyway, there's a proliferation of...these all-right-ly written girls, at least in the books I've read recently, and I'm sick of them. Cimorene is awesome in part due to her uniqueness--I have yet to read a book as good as hers about a character like her--and yes in part for defying the fairy tale...but that's fairy tales, and I guess my problem is with more historical-fiction-y stuff?

Calamity Jane gets Dois Day-ed? ...is that along the lines of "if you take the nerdy chick's glasses off she becomes a total babe"?

[keestone.livejournal.com]

More like the spitting, cussing, tall-tale-telling, sharp shooting, tough stagecoach driver suddenly gets whitewashed, prettified and shoved into a frilly dress next to a romantic interest, cause nobody wants to hear about the real Calamity Jane . . . she wasn't very attractive and not ladylike at all. But, yeah.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

...that's rather how I felt about the weird chick at the end of Breakfast Club. With less sharp shooting and more pixie-sticks-on-toast-ing. But, yeah.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Musicals are *never* anything approaching reality, so I just pretend they're about someone else. The Sisi movies with Romy Schneider (about the Empress Elisabeth of Austria) aren't musicals, but they whitewash things, too, and I know it and I don't care because I luuuuuv those movies anyway!

[keestone.livejournal.com]

By the way, I have no clue who Malone is. I'd say my age is showing, but it might just be general cluelessness.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

Ah-hahahaha, Malone is my name for my middle sister here on the ol' LJ. She hijacked my keyboard mid-reply. :-b

[idiosyncreant.livejournal.com]

*also just read Dealing with Dragons*

She's so strong, and she *likes* being in charge of a house! Kinda like Sophie in HMC, but definitely in her own flavor.

[avian-xj.livejournal.com]

...we have telepathy. I was just going through queensthief_fic a few minutes ago looking for the Dancing Bear Conspiracy, and I passed by Willow's Insomnia title and of course my thoughts would wander onto that same topic.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

AWESOME.

especially because MWT juxtaposes several of the scenes in an almost cinematic way! which is like, gah, these transitions would be awesome movie transitions, but I still feel like a movie wouldn't work. Unless I wrote it.

[chaos-harmony.livejournal.com]

I should read this trilogy, shouldn't I.

And I agree with you. Similarly, I remember a friend criticizing The West Wing for not featuring strong enough female characters because there weren't enough women in "high-powered" positions in the fictional White House. And while I definitely see her point, I don't think not being in a high-powered position necessarily means that a female character isn't strong - the female assistants, for instance, get to be witty, dynamic, and intelligent, and their (mostly male) bosses are incredibly dependent on them.

<------ woman who grabbed sword, saved world, was miserable, found man, was happy. Moral of story?

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

ALMOST A QUARTET YOU KNOW.

also, HOLY SHIT YOU'RE IN CHINA SO I CAN'T TELL YOU "OMG GO GET THESE BOOKS RIGHT NOW WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR."

So the answer to your not-question is, um, HELL YEAH.

I was just thinking about that! (i.e., I was reading a smutty Kakasaku fic where he was Hokage and she was Secretary Holding Hokage's Life Together.) Like on the one hand, you want the woman to get the recognition for all her hard work, but on the other hand, if he's incredibly dependent on her, does she really need top billing? Because she already has a ton of control. But what's standing between her and the top position? Why doesn't she just take it? Is there a reason she doesn't? Is it some sort of lingering patriarchal whatever, or is it just a "I don't want it"? But what's bringing that on? Is this about to veer into gender role territory, which makes a lot of people queasy?

...one of the books I just finished recently had a whole little rant about feminism that has had me pondering all this, so uh, this little matter is just icing on the cake.

but seriously: why does the secretary choose to stay the secretary? are women just happier running everything from behind the scenes, or do we just think we are?

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

HEY

HEY

HAVE YOU READ THESE BOOKS YET OR NOT

[spellcoats.livejournal.com]

THANKS FOR TELLING ME THERE'S A NEW BOOK COMING OUT, FAGGOT.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

WHAT I DID ON FACEBOOK AND HERE (http://jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com/149426.html) YOU JUST DIDN'T CHECK MY JOURNAL YOU WHORE.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

These other books seem to dismiss the other women doing all the embroidering because it's so boring and all they ever do is gossip.

I hate that stereotype by now. I think I didn't care so much in books, but fanfic has utterly ruined it for me. I can't take any ATLA fic seriously that has either Mai or Katara being compared to shallow, conniving, vain society bitches. Like I'm supposed to believe that a group of 12 women, even rich women, are ALL shallow, vain, and money-grubbing husband hunters? Who will all absolutely despise the new princess out of jealousy? Bahhh.

I think sometimes in an author's haste to provide a really strong female character, she ignores all the wonderful chances for subtlety that were, in fact, what most women had to deal in.

Books and fics that do this often impress me. I feel like the conventions of historical fantasy fiction, particularly with royalty or noble class, have these preconceived patterns that focus on shallow stereotypes, particularly ones that contrast one woman against a group of others (often the male's love interest.) This is why I have this intense interest (as yet undeveloped) in the Joo Dee group in Ba Sing Se, in ATLA. I mean, BSS is such a male city, from the king to Long Feng to the Dai Li, that I just wonder what all the women are up to.


I've only read QoA, not the third book. But I loved Attolia as a character for the reasons you describe here. I particularly loved how there's hints throughout both books that the women have things in common, yet live different lives, but they're able to come together as female rulers--very different types of rulers from very different nations--who can be allies, maybe someday friends. And when they join up, they're so professional. They talk about their kingdoms and their troops and their jobs and they worry about holding vs. sharing power and they're not made into stereotypes of young girls.

And they can do that while one is an unconventional "rough" person and one a traditionally female "pretty" person...yet both are so much more.