jade_sabre (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
jade_sabre) wrote2009-08-12 11:31 pm
jade_sabre) wrote2009-08-12 11:31 pm
Entry tags:
thoughts about things, book-related
1. Re: things that disappointed me about Graceling: I think my problem with Katsa's big NO I WON'T GET MARRIED THING is that I could sort of see why she was doing that, in a murky area that was half-in the writing and half-subtext-y. Like, all the examples of marriage that Katsa saw involved the women settling down in a domestic setting and running a household and having babies, all things she's not interested in. So I can understand her not wanting to end up in that situation.
I was thinking about what![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
emmaco said about how many strong female heroines never rule out marriage or children, but are just putting them off, and I was thinking about them (like Alanna, for example), and how it's not only the whole "not interested in that at all" thing but it's also the "haven't met the right man to change their mind" thing, and Katsa falls into that too, because Po changes her mind, at least on the subject of sleeping together.
And in that vein, I think that when she gets older and realizes that she and Po don't have to have a marriage like everyone else's, she'll be more open to the idea. And furthermore, I never got the sense that there was any question that the two of them were heading towards a long-term monogamous relationship, with or without an actual wedding. Which is, in the end, what marriage basically is, if you strip it down. While there's an element of nontraditionalism there--traveling around, occasionally being separated--it's not...that radically different. (And I still maintain that Po agrees to it because he loves Katsa and knows he can only have her on her terms, but I would like to think that eventually they reach a compromise, because I think Po wants kids.) So it's not really that big of a deal, except the book treats it like one.
Now, if you had a couple where both parties had severe commitment phobia and the warrior chick girl neglected to tell the slinky fighter boy she was pregnant and raised her children far away from him because she knew he couldn't handle it, and the guy slept around in an attempt to assure himself that he wasn't REALLY attached to her, and then they hooked back up twenty years later, acknowledging that they couldn't really stand living together but also realizing there wasn't anyone else for either of them, now that might be a little more non-traditional. Just--just an example. A thought.
2. I finished the Dark is Rising sequence by Susan Cooper. One of the things that kept coming to my mind, over and over again, was, "man,philia_fan would love this series, because all the books stand alone on their own!" I know people cite them as examples of series books that get Newberries, but honestly Silver on the Tree is the one that I would say most relies on the others. The Dark is Rising, the Newberry Honor, stands quite firmly and solidly on its own two feet, and The Grey King (Newberry winner) only slightly less so, in that there's a little background information that is helpful to have when reading it. But even the characters appear and are fleshed out on their own terms in each novel. It really is fascinating to read.
Susan Cooper's prose is also wonderfully, indescribably British. I'm not entirely sure why. It just is.
AND NOW I AM HEADING INTO SPOILER-VILLE or at least I will rapidly descend there and SINCE I THINK PEOPLE OUGHT TO READ THESE BOOKS, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD SKIP THIS SECTION IF YOU HAVEN'T.
What I found most interesting about these books was the pattern they followed. While reading Over Sea, Under Stone, I spent a lot of time being TERRIFIED for the Drew children, because they were so young and holy crap, the bad guys are trying to kill them. And yet I never doubted that they would survive and that all would end well. And that feeling continued through each book--while the situations were terrible, and the bad guys very powerful, I never thought that anyone would fail.
And not only do they not fail, they don't really ever mess up, either. Merriman makes a mistake in trusting Hawkin, and loses his chance to enter the Lost Land; other than that, everything goes according to plan. The full rules of everything are never really explained, and most of the time are very, very vague. Limitations pop up on both Dark and Light, or powers are revealed, mentioned in passing. And the clues are rarely something you can deduce with prior knowledge; you have to wait until the right folk story is told or the right circumstances occur, and find out with everyone else. And I never doubted that the stories would appear, because they always did. It was almost utterly predictable; and like I said, I never doubted that everything would turn out perfectly all right, every step of the way.
And yet I kept reading. Because I loved the characters, and because there was something engrossing about this inexorable victory of the Light. Because Cooper described the world so accurately and deftly that I was there, in the cold or the mist on the mountains, or hearing the sea crash against the cliff walls.
The Grey King was definitely the best of the lot, although I think Greenwitch was my favorite. GK combined all of the mythological elements and dark mystery--the heaviness of her writing--with a dash of uniqueness and creativity, and just brought everything together.
As for the ending--well, I am an old friend to the not-quite-happy ending, but still, making them forget everything? I am still a little heartbroken.
I love Jane Drew, another reason Greenwitch is my favorite--it's really her novel, and in a sense, the whole sequence belongs just as much to her as it does to Will. I think their POVs were the most dominant, and their stories--his, as the only child Old One, hers as the only girl (and I love that she and the Lady had that moment, and it saddens me that it was taken from her)--were definitely the ones with the most--the most oomph to them. Bran's story, while important, is told less through his eyes; I think I might have liked to know more of what he was thinking, except not really.
And also, yes, I ended up shipping Will/Jane--the way she instinctively looked to him just made me "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw." And see now I have this theory--and I wonder if Cooper had it in mind--that Bran and Will and Jane make up their own little Arthurian triangle--Bran's the Pendragon [always Arthur's son, whether or not he remembers], and Will is his right-hand man, and Jane is "Jenny"--and Bran is the one who calls her Jenny. Except that Will, as the Old One, has the strength and fortitude not to fall and bring Jane down with him, and so it all turns out all right--the last bit of the Arthurian story, fitting together the last bit of the Light that Arthur missed.
AND YET THIS SADDENS ME BECAUSE WILL/JANE, I SHIP IT SO HARD. And they're like thirteen. (Will/Lyra happened at that age, is it wrong to dream?) But at the same time it's impossible, but at the same time--
also, ff.net is, last I checked, depressingly lacking in this sort of Arthurian parallel fanfic. WHY FANFIC WRITERS OF THE WORLD. WHY.
So in short, read this series, if not in the least to observe how curiously different it is while somehow managing to be very much the same.
And this is a long post, and I wrote it instead of doing my Zutara Week contribution for the day, so I think I will save movie-related musings for another post.
Another friend of mine is taking the GRE tomorrow, so please send good vibes her way, too!
Love and sweet dreams,
Jade
I was thinking about what
emmaco said about how many strong female heroines never rule out marriage or children, but are just putting them off, and I was thinking about them (like Alanna, for example), and how it's not only the whole "not interested in that at all" thing but it's also the "haven't met the right man to change their mind" thing, and Katsa falls into that too, because Po changes her mind, at least on the subject of sleeping together.And in that vein, I think that when she gets older and realizes that she and Po don't have to have a marriage like everyone else's, she'll be more open to the idea. And furthermore, I never got the sense that there was any question that the two of them were heading towards a long-term monogamous relationship, with or without an actual wedding. Which is, in the end, what marriage basically is, if you strip it down. While there's an element of nontraditionalism there--traveling around, occasionally being separated--it's not...that radically different. (And I still maintain that Po agrees to it because he loves Katsa and knows he can only have her on her terms, but I would like to think that eventually they reach a compromise, because I think Po wants kids.) So it's not really that big of a deal, except the book treats it like one.
Now, if you had a couple where both parties had severe commitment phobia and the warrior chick girl neglected to tell the slinky fighter boy she was pregnant and raised her children far away from him because she knew he couldn't handle it, and the guy slept around in an attempt to assure himself that he wasn't REALLY attached to her, and then they hooked back up twenty years later, acknowledging that they couldn't really stand living together but also realizing there wasn't anyone else for either of them, now that might be a little more non-traditional. Just--just an example. A thought.
2. I finished the Dark is Rising sequence by Susan Cooper. One of the things that kept coming to my mind, over and over again, was, "man,
philia_fan would love this series, because all the books stand alone on their own!" I know people cite them as examples of series books that get Newberries, but honestly Silver on the Tree is the one that I would say most relies on the others. The Dark is Rising, the Newberry Honor, stands quite firmly and solidly on its own two feet, and The Grey King (Newberry winner) only slightly less so, in that there's a little background information that is helpful to have when reading it. But even the characters appear and are fleshed out on their own terms in each novel. It really is fascinating to read.Susan Cooper's prose is also wonderfully, indescribably British. I'm not entirely sure why. It just is.
AND NOW I AM HEADING INTO SPOILER-VILLE or at least I will rapidly descend there and SINCE I THINK PEOPLE OUGHT TO READ THESE BOOKS, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD SKIP THIS SECTION IF YOU HAVEN'T.
What I found most interesting about these books was the pattern they followed. While reading Over Sea, Under Stone, I spent a lot of time being TERRIFIED for the Drew children, because they were so young and holy crap, the bad guys are trying to kill them. And yet I never doubted that they would survive and that all would end well. And that feeling continued through each book--while the situations were terrible, and the bad guys very powerful, I never thought that anyone would fail.
And not only do they not fail, they don't really ever mess up, either. Merriman makes a mistake in trusting Hawkin, and loses his chance to enter the Lost Land; other than that, everything goes according to plan. The full rules of everything are never really explained, and most of the time are very, very vague. Limitations pop up on both Dark and Light, or powers are revealed, mentioned in passing. And the clues are rarely something you can deduce with prior knowledge; you have to wait until the right folk story is told or the right circumstances occur, and find out with everyone else. And I never doubted that the stories would appear, because they always did. It was almost utterly predictable; and like I said, I never doubted that everything would turn out perfectly all right, every step of the way.
And yet I kept reading. Because I loved the characters, and because there was something engrossing about this inexorable victory of the Light. Because Cooper described the world so accurately and deftly that I was there, in the cold or the mist on the mountains, or hearing the sea crash against the cliff walls.
The Grey King was definitely the best of the lot, although I think Greenwitch was my favorite. GK combined all of the mythological elements and dark mystery--the heaviness of her writing--with a dash of uniqueness and creativity, and just brought everything together.
As for the ending--well, I am an old friend to the not-quite-happy ending, but still, making them forget everything? I am still a little heartbroken.
I love Jane Drew, another reason Greenwitch is my favorite--it's really her novel, and in a sense, the whole sequence belongs just as much to her as it does to Will. I think their POVs were the most dominant, and their stories--his, as the only child Old One, hers as the only girl (and I love that she and the Lady had that moment, and it saddens me that it was taken from her)--were definitely the ones with the most--the most oomph to them. Bran's story, while important, is told less through his eyes; I think I might have liked to know more of what he was thinking, except not really.
And also, yes, I ended up shipping Will/Jane--the way she instinctively looked to him just made me "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw." And see now I have this theory--and I wonder if Cooper had it in mind--that Bran and Will and Jane make up their own little Arthurian triangle--Bran's the Pendragon [always Arthur's son, whether or not he remembers], and Will is his right-hand man, and Jane is "Jenny"--and Bran is the one who calls her Jenny. Except that Will, as the Old One, has the strength and fortitude not to fall and bring Jane down with him, and so it all turns out all right--the last bit of the Arthurian story, fitting together the last bit of the Light that Arthur missed.
AND YET THIS SADDENS ME BECAUSE WILL/JANE, I SHIP IT SO HARD. And they're like thirteen. (Will/Lyra happened at that age, is it wrong to dream?) But at the same time it's impossible, but at the same time--
also, ff.net is, last I checked, depressingly lacking in this sort of Arthurian parallel fanfic. WHY FANFIC WRITERS OF THE WORLD. WHY.
So in short, read this series, if not in the least to observe how curiously different it is while somehow managing to be very much the same.
And this is a long post, and I wrote it instead of doing my Zutara Week contribution for the day, so I think I will save movie-related musings for another post.
Another friend of mine is taking the GRE tomorrow, so please send good vibes her way, too!
Love and sweet dreams,
Jade
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there is now zero chance that i will read these
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*will return to comment more intelligently on Jade's post later but was in pain over thought of someone missing The Dark is Rising books*
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you WHORE.
there was a REASON I said THERE ARE SPOILERS HERE DON'T READ THEM BECAUSE YOU OUGHT TO READ THE BOOKS.
*is no longer speaking to you*
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Dammit, Jade, you've made me add to my to reread pile.
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YOU ARE BACK FROM SIBERIA. I OUGHT TO COMMENT ON YOUR POST ABOUT THAT.
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And like I understand--or at least I think I do--what she was doing with having them get together halfway through the novel (that way, you can focus on other stuff in the second half), but their relationship was probably the most interesting thing for me at that point, and I nearly put the book down for good because that story was over. And I think--again, if Katsa is so worried about that sort of long-term monogamous thing or whatever--I just feel like she jumped straight from "we can be lovers" to "we can be lovers who are together forever!" and it seems like...I dunno. I WANT MORE, DARN IT.
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Also I forgot to mention last time you talked about Graceling, but that was an incredibly articulate post about girls and marriage. I think. As I remember it, it was excellent and I could ramble on but I'll spare you XD I just WANTED YOU TO KNOW
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NO NO I REALLY APPROVE OF RAMBLING IN ALL ITS FORMS hello have you ever READ my posts? XD but thanks for the sentiment I APPRECIATE KNOWING.
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I went back and looked, it was where you were talking about how tiresome it was for female characters not to want babies or be married. Totally understandable when you're thirteen, but lately I think the more interesting characters are the female badasses who are unafraid to be feminine as well (and not in a i-get-what-i-want-cause-im-hot way). Maybe it was Dune that really rocked this idea? I can't remember. But I think having kids or being married makes you more of a badass because you aren't denying that part of yourself. You have a husband, kids, a family to protect and that makes you fight even harder than before.
w/e, you summed it up really well! There need to be more awesome, strong female characters D:
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see: icon
Yeah! Yeah! This! (I don't think Dune really rocked anything re: strong female characters because I seem to remember thinking Paul's wife was, like, a proto-Bella-Swan, although now that I think about it Paul's mom is pretty badass and his little sister is just insane.) You are not so bad with the summations yourself. :-D
Re: see: icon
boreChoice counts too, I suppose. Not much really comes to mind, thinking of badass mothers.I mean seriously, childbirth looks like one of the most hardcore and un-frail things a person can do. How can a gender that can manage that NOT be badass??
I DO WHAT I CAN (although as anachred has pointed out so often, i have Very Strong Opinions XD they have to be articulated well or people will just think im a jackass)
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I KNOW. It's like, dude, I bleed out once a month, deal with people in spite of mood swings, AND HAVE THE CAPACITY TO PUSH A TINY PERSON OUT OF ME. Why oh why do I have to be more than that? That's plenty for me. XD
Because I am like totally a level-headed kid (http://jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com/tag/ranting) whose opinions are always well-said and would never shock/appall/offend anyone. XD
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More like, do you really want to mess with someone who can and does all these things on a relatively consistent basis?? UH I WOULD BACK AWAY SLOWLY; NOT MUCH IS GOING TO FAZE THEM
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I have not read Graceling either, but I just wanted to comment to say that I completely agree with your thoughts about how marriage/long-term monogamy is handled in strong female characters.
Also, I would loooove to read a story with the plot that you sort of cooked up as an example of a non-tradditional relationship :D
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YAY it is good to know that I am not alone. Now if I could only write those domestic strong female characters faster...
AH-HAHAHAHAHA well you could try reading this (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4142011/1/Not_Yet_by_Lightning) and its not-yet-posted-but-available-for-email-purposes sequel, if you equip yourself with a wiki readthrough of the plot of the game, because...yeah, that's basically what I was describing. (Not to, uh, toot my own horn or anything. Also the whole "twenty years later" part only exists in my head, in terms of "what i know happens to them.") :-b
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Jade! There's a paragraph in a book I like that always makes me think, "you know, jade would like this." A friend borrowed it and I just got it back and here the passage is. It's the girl's birthday and the guy has just given her a gift--he's told her a memory of his family, which he normally never talks about. And she's happy, and she challenges him to a race.
" "I'll race you back," she said instead. "Only you have to give me a head start. Promise?" He nodded, grinning at her while he jogged rapidly in place as if he couldn't wait to get moving. "Okay, count to one hundred by ones. And no cheating...no matter what happens. Okay?"
"Okay, okay," he said, laughing. "Get going."
"Lean down," she said, hoping she was not going to embarrass both of them by crying. "I love your present," she whispered. "Thanks." And then--because he was so close and smelled so warm and sweaty and healthy, and there was a ladybug in his hair, and the morning was so clear and pinkish gold and perfect, and she felt so fantastic herself--she kissed him hard on the mouth and fled up the road yelling, "One hundred by ones, and no cheating, remember!" "
Isn't that just lovely? I think it's the ladybug that does it.
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THAT
CHECKERS THAT WAS ADORABLE. I agree totally and completely about the ladybug (and "pinkish gold," too, I think, pink is such a perky happy perfect word in that setting--I really ought to make a video about learning GRE words, because I found myself having to introduce my friend to thinking about the concept that "sometimes words sound like the thing they mean.). And her last line is perfect too. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Thank you!
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In other words: the author which we were just discussing not reading the book of for fear of lacking our beloved hilarity just read that post and commented.
Not to say you need to come over there, but comfort me, baby.
AUTHORFAIL already, and my submission packet isn't even out the door yet. doubleFAIL
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*comfortcomfortcomfortcomfort* I mean like really my problem is a) it's expensive and b) while I love her blog, I love the style it's in, and I know the style of the book will be less RANDOM INTERJECTIONS OF AWESOME, more...book-y. And while I have read some of her other work and loved it (she wrote a post-DH HP fic that pretty much made the whole epilogue better for me), I am still...hesitant to pick up the book.
But then, pretty much the only books I buy full price are Artemis Fowl, Harry Potter, and MWT, SO IT'S NOT LIKE SHE'S THE ONLY AUTHOR I HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH. I am allergic to full prices with anything.
I don't think she quite followed that the parody itself has nothing to do with putting me (or I suspect you) off buying her book--the parody is just one example of her brilliance. For me, it's her regular posts vs. what a book would be like...or something.
HERE I WILL DISTRACT YOU WITH A QUESTION
so like I am basing this off the little Japanese high school stuff I have seen (...make that Ouran and the awesome awesome film Linda Linda Linda), but is there something in Japanese culture about "making professions of love"? Like, calling your crush into a secluded location and confessing your feelings? Is that...how things are generally done over there? Is this something people do, rather than, like, I dunno, sit around pining and doing nothing?
(I will probably put this question out to my whole f-list eventually, but I AM DISTRACTING YOU FROM YOUR PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN.)
and I mean if you really need distraction, you could always return to the pictures on this post (http://anachred.livejournal.com/78424.html).
Being Distracted from Pain...
Kids are in school ALL THE TIME. In junior high, after-school clubs are mandatory (there are always a few slacker clubs, like "computer club"), and many are in cram schools to work toward testing into a good high school.
The strict atmosphere of most schools (where teachers have authority in the kids personal lives) means they have to sneak this stuff during breaks.
I hadn't really considered that aspect before, but now you point the trope out as strange to you (I never went to any other kind of school...) I think that plays into it a lot.
The other element is that girls *do* take the initiative a lot. I mean, the whole set-up for Valentine's in their culture shows that: the girl confesses, the guy gets a month to think about reciprocating.
Guys ask girls out, too, but girls writing notes on their cutest memo-pad paper to tell a guy their feelings is really how they did it in the Jr. High I went to.
(The school girls always have cute memo paper for writing notes to each other.)
Re: Being Distracted from Pain...
but potentially emotionally damaging. On the other hand, if you get it out in the open, and get shut down, what's done is done.
Still, that's all very cool to know.
(wanting to write Ouran fic is revealing large gaps in my knowledge of Japanese culture. WHY SELF WHY.)
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She posted about it today. I can't go and look at the comments because no doubt I am being crucified.
I would like to swear, or cry, or hit my head hard on desk-like objects, but it's prettily distracting me from my first novel rejection.
screwing up like this is so much worse.
Anyway, my family's sick of my wordless angsting, so I thought I'd share.
Did you read that story I linked a million years ago, her "Old-Fashioned Unicorn's Guide to Courtship?" Because it reads like her parodies, only in a more general-fantasy-mocking and full of real heart sort of way.
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you (and well me too for that matter) are not being crucified. You are being given a pretty large serious WTF look though.
yes, I did read that story! And I liked it very very much (although like could not make up my mind how I wanted it to turn out, onoez problematic endings).
*pats on back* there there, don't cry anymore. XD
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