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jade_sabreSo I’m trying to write this Avatar fic—or maybe a multitude of them, I dunno, because I keep hitting a roadblock. ![[info]](https://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small}
styromgalleries and I talked about this some the other day, which reminded me that I wanted to do a big post asking for characterizations thoughts on the post-finale conundrum that is canonical Avatar ships.
(Basically, I want to write a Zutara fic that keeps everyone in character, and I’m finding it a bitch. Read on.)
Okay, so here’s what I’m starting off of:
Zuko: Zuko’s not that hard—just see my fic snippet from the other day. Zuko and Mai have broken up, which isn’t such a big deal for them—I can see it happening, either one doing it to the other, although I like the idea of Mai doing it so that Zuko can grouse about that “don’t ever break up with me again!” line.
(Of course, then it’s like, oh, a breakup isn’t that big a deal. And between the time I first started writing this post in my head and the time I actually got my laptop open, I came up with:
“A breakup—what’s a breakup? Two people who used to be together, and then aren’t.” Simon shrugged. “That’s all there is to it.”
“Well, that’s really kinda sad, when you put it that way, don’t you think?” Kaylee said. “I mean, it’s not that clean and surgical, Mr. Medicine Man.” She playfully nudged him, shoulder into arm.
Simon stared down into the tumbler he held, tilting it in circles. “It’s just another kind of ending, that’s all.”
[this originally started with the line “two people who used to be together, and then aren’t,” and then me being like “oh man, that’s a cold way to put it,” and then “really kinda sad doncha think?” and then “oh man, that’s such a Kaylee line” and then “man, Simon would be like, ‘yeah, breakups are no big deal,’ being all manly and tough and logical about them, but he’s probably secretly remembering this one breakup he had, and then like other relationships that break up because of death, because he’s a surgeon,” and now having written this explanatory paragraph I’m going “man, I seem to have a baby!Firefly fic on my hands, DO NOT WANT/omg tragic-death-breakups-+-Simon’s-utter-lack-of-game wait I would never put a death breakup in Simon’s past I’ll give it to like a patient of his while he’s going through his own breakup and then he’s all, ‘no chick I realized the important things in life!’ and she’ll be like ‘too late, see you later loser,’ and then he’ll be depressed and write letters to River and include lines {in between all the formal genius stuff} like ‘and you’re probably totally making fun of me for getting so worked up about a girl’ and then when she replies she makes NO MENTION OF IT AT ALL and he’s like ‘dude what’s up’ AND THEN HE STARTS LOOKING FOR THE CODE” yep trufax: instead of rebounding, Simon went and busted his sister out of top-secret government-assassin-making facility. Now that’s productivity.]
[…also so is plotting out a baby!Firefly fic in the middle of a “I need Avatar fic-writing help” post.]
[…frickin overachievers.]
[it took me like five tries to type “achiever” i before e except after c idiot.])
ANYWAY WHERE WAS I.
Let’s just start over.
I’m very specifically working off the idea of taking Kataang seriously. Which I think is more difficult than some people realize, either because a) they haven’t tried doing it or b) they just don’t bother doing it/don’t realize they’re not doing it. But I really, really want to work off the idea that Katara and Aang are attracted to each other and do care about each other in a romantic sense. (Obviously my problem here is with Katara’s feelings for Aang, because his for her are absolutely unquestioned.)
I also have a few other ideas, such as “the Avatar is supposed to be alone” and “Mai/Earth King is the best ship ever. So. Let’s look at the hypothetical situation a year after the finale (we’ll be generous with ages, say Aang’s almost 14, Zuko’s about 17/8, and Katara’s about 16):
Zuko: Like I said, Zuko and Mai have broken up. I really don’t see much difficulty in justifying this: she wanted younger!Zuko, new!Zuko doesn’t quite fit her bill (again, the Earth King and Zuko really are v. much alike, except EK doesn’t have all of Zuko’s emotional baggage, which is why I think he and Mai are going to rub uncomfortably against each other); new!Zuko likes her well enough, and does care about her, but her focus is different from his, and it’s just not working. (And yes, obviously she cares about him, see Boiling Rock, but they’re different people from who they were even before he dumped her, and that chapter of their lives is over.) Like I said, I like the idea of Mai dumping him; it gives him some turmoil, but also that feeling of freedom (also this feels more like a typical breakup, where you’re depressed and sad and angry, and then you realize, hey, this is doable, and then you are comfortable enough with yourself that you keep moving on, and yes I myself know that these layers are often interchangeable, but anyway), and it’s a break, and he doesn’t have to feel guilty about moving on, because it was her choice.
So Zuko realizes Katara’s still attractive (for backup of his at-least-baby!crush on her, see his typical-teenager-I’m-not-moving-and-I’m-not-saying-why gameplan in Ember Island Players, always a winner at movie theatres and when picking seats in class), and that he could start falling for her, in a srs sort of way.
So now we have Katara and Aang.
Aang: Thinks the world of Katara. Always has, always will. (For me, this is a PAINFUL TRAGEDY and I really hate it because I do love Aang a lot, and that whole “Avatar is supposed to be alone” thing really sucks for him and I mean I guess he could find someone else but at the same time I want him to find peace doing what he is supposed to do—accepting his destiny in the fullest sense.) They’ve been dating for a year, and it’s pretty much as Katara says: they have a little bit of time together, but he’s always dashing off to solve problems and stuff. He doesn’t really get the feeling that there’s anything wrong with this, as he’s Aang and a boy and oblivious—sure, he’d love to have more time with Katara, but it’s not like she doesn’t come with him a lot of the time (but let’s be honest, they’re probably still at the hand-holding and occasional-kissing stage, having really made out a few times but not really having had a lot of time to devote to it [and who knows, maybe one or the other {probably Katara} is holding back a little on that because it feels strange, but that could just be wishful thinking on my part]), and besides, he loves her. He is never, ever going to let go of her.
THIS IS WHERE THE SNAGS COME IN.
They are, like the tangles in her unbraided hair while flying on Appa, inevitably and painfully attached to Katara.
Katara: Loves Aang. But maybe, she’s starting to think, not in a romantic sense. She’s probably still mothering him some—because who else is going to mother an Avatar fully come into his own, bending-wise?—but neither of them realize it, because it’s always been a part of their relationship (and if I can break them up, it’ll be much more “duh” for them and the way things should be, but anyway). And frankly she’s a little tired of being “the Avatar’s girl,” or “the Avatar’s girlfriend.” Because you know, no matter what she’s done, she’s going to be his girlfriend, Katara of the Water Tribe, and not the other way around.
But she’s also aware of her effect on Aang. He’s probably gotten better with the
Anyway, so Katara is a) canny enough not to be sucked into Aang’s attempts to cover things, b) willing to go along with him anyway, and c) still aware, in the back of her mind, that if anything happens to her, or if she does anything extreme, Aang may snap. Yes, he’s maturing, and coming a long way from the boy who killed a bug thing after Appa disappeared, but there’s still a lingering sense of…potential problems. And so Katara tries to ignore it, but she knows it’s there.
In other words, she’s not going to leave him unless she’s damn sure she’s got somewhere to go, because the consequences of her leaving could be disastrous. That’s not quite how I want to phrase it, but it will do for now.
So, my problems:
1) Zuko has a crush on Katara, yes. Zuko may even fall in love with Katara. However, Zuko is not going to make a single move while Katara is Aang’s girlfriend, because Aang is one of his best friends, because he wants Aang to be happy, and because you just don’t do that (it would not be, one might say, honorable). Oh, being Zuko, he’ll probably slip up and say things or do things that give him away, but he’ll try to cover them up or pretend they didn’t happen, because
[HOLY SHIT I JUST MADE THE MISTAKE OF CHECKING MY FLIST ALSDKFJA;LDFKJSAF; I GO AWAY FOR TWO DAYS AND THEY DECIDE TO ANNOUNCE THE TITLE OF THE NEXT ATTOLIA BOOK WTF LIFE IS SO UNFAIR]
he doesn’t want to go there or cause temptation or any problems.
2) Aang is never going to dump Katara.
3) Katara can totally fall in love with Zuko, or at least realize she’s attracted to him and that it maybe could go somewhere. The problem is that I don’t really see Katara leaving Aang—and maybe this is just my utter bewilderment clouding my judgment, but I mean, hell, if she’s convinced she’s in love with him in the finale, I don’t know what’s going to undelude change her mind, aside from the passage of time, but even then, she might not want to lose him/be afraid of stepping away from him inasmuch as we know Katara has issues with separation (understandably) and while she’s a big girl and all about kicking butt in a lot of ways, she can be incredibly vulnerable, emotionally speaking, especially with regard to attachments. So I guess that’s what I mean about being “damn sure,” from her end, because it could be disastrous for both of them—so I don’t see Katara leaving Aang unless she knows Zuko wants her.
4) So you see how 1 and 3 are a problem. Because Zuko’s not going to make a move, and Katara’s going to be stuck in
5) Part of me wonders if it’s no better being the Fire Lord’s girlfriend than it is being the Avatar’s girlfriend. Obviously the former is on more equal footing, at least, but you know she’ll still get it. But maybe less of it?
6) If by some miracle Katara and Zuko do get together, how do I handle Aang? Oh God.
So basically, if you have any quibbles with characterization or canon support or plotness, or spot any holes I left uncovered (and remember, I don’t have an actual plot—this is all character stuff), please tell me. I really want to write a fic that doesn’t just break Kataang up for the hell of it, or take place in a universe post-break-up—and maybe I’m not giving post-finale Zutara fandom enough credit (and granted, I haven’t done much searching of the fanfic these days), but I somehow doubt there are a lot of fics that tackle this. But I’m going round and round in circles on this, and so if you see a place I can get onto the straight track, that would be awesome.
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part 1
Date: 2009-06-08 08:49 am (UTC)I also have a few other ideas, such as âthe Avatar is supposed to be aloneâ and âMai/Earth King is the best ship ever.
1. Are you making that Avatar assumption based on the premise that it was Roku's choice of leading a full life and having a family that caused him to turn a blind eye to Sozin for so long? I think that could be an argument, but I don't like it much. I think there's so many other reasons, but mostly Roku and Sozin's closeness as friends that contributed. Rather than having the Avatar be forcibly alone, what about Aang? Maybe he needs to be alone. Maybe he needs to leave the nest and grow up and have some freedom and figure out what he wants from life and expand his horizons and get over his neediness and find out what else there is besides Katara. This doesn't mean he loves her less, but sometimes love isn't enough, and I can see Aang as needing to satisfy his other emotional needs too, in ways he can't when he's in a committed relationship at 14.
Or maybe all Avatars don't need to be alone, but Avatar Aang does. His personality is such that he can't focus on the job and love at the same time. Other Avatars in the past...some could handle it, some couldn't. You could imply that his lack of a traditional family structure or clan (or even home town) means he lacks the support environment that would normally help balance his emotional needs, so he dumps his love too heavily onto his close personal relationships, and can't keep his focus or maintain his priorities.
2. M/EK is the best ship ever! Yay! PLEASE DO THIS.
3. Your reasons for Mai and Zuko breaking up seem reasonable, and mesh with their characters. For your part, it might be better to focus on expectations and change. You mentioned how they've both changed; along with that are unspoken and unrealized expectations about how their relationship will be. However, they can't live up to those old expectations when they've both changed so much. I like Mai leaving him first. I hope Zuko has a hissy fit about it too, either at the time or after she's gone; I can't imagine him taking being dumped well even if he felt it coming. I've read fics that break them up but with little or no fallout. THere's got to be fallout.
4. but neither of them realize it, because itâs always been a part of their relationship (and if I can break them up, itâll be much more âduhâ for them and the way things should be, but anyway).
Do this in an indirect, subtle way. Don't have her vocalize it explicitly, have her be doing something and then realize (to herself or someone nearby) that she did this for Aang. And then let the implications hang in the air.
Re: part 1
Date: 2009-06-08 07:45 pm (UTC)Hm, I think I like this. The being-aloneness (???) is not what determines a successful Avatar or not. Think about Kyoshi. She was alone, as far as we know. But she still made a sort-of mistake in creating the Dai-li. She had all her time to devote to being an Avatar, and one of her decisions ending up kicking her butt in a future life.
It's about the individual, not the Avatar. Yeah, Jade, I think you should definitely consider this idea of Rashaka's.
replying to both of y'all
Date: 2009-06-10 04:37 pm (UTC)it's like, knowing what the rules and immersing yourself in them in order to know when and how to break them. As in, the rule would be to err on the side of caution and not have a family unless you can handle it, but over the years the rule gets really obscured, and Aang doesn't get the training so he doesn't even see what he's doing as being maybe harmful to his particular role as this particular Avatar.
Like, in the past, there are people that train the Avatar, right? So now I see this whole thing where--for example, Kurik. Let's say for the past few cycles it had been okay for the Avatars to have/the Avatars had been able to handle relationships. We don't actually know what happened to the world under him, but let's just say something really horrible happened. Now, the people in charge of training benders and stuff go, hey, this happened because the Avatar was obsessed with his face-stolen girlfriend. So when Kurik dies, the people who raise the next Avatar impress upon him or her that personal relationships are forbidden, because they're afraid of making Kurik's mistake again. Then that becomes the norm for several cycles, and then like you could end up with an Avatar who maybe would be able to handle it if they had been trained to be open to all possibilities, but instead they've been cut off and so when this Avatar does fall in love it's
like Anakin Skywalker only better handleddark and forbidden and angsty and then terrible things happen and I think I ended up waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay offtopic here but I suppose the point is that the evolution of the Avatar's personal relationships would be fascinating to study?The other point is yes, this whole thing is awesome.
plz ignore how long it took me to getting around to replying
Date: 2009-06-10 04:28 pm (UTC)my problem is that I would either start the fic with them already broken up but not saying anything about it, or start it off with the actual dumping, which would involve less actual explanatory conversation and more Zuko-hissy-fitting. oh well. things to worry about for the future.
4. Yes, that.
*(why do we never use "said" but always "like"? I mean maybe your English is better than mine but I find using "said" in spoken conversation/spontaneous commenting feels weird. Even though "said" is usually more correct than "like.")
**ironically making it a similar problem, in part, to Kataang.
Re: plz ignore how long it took me to getting around to replying
Date: 2009-06-10 06:27 pm (UTC)Listen to the Killers song "For Reasons Unknown" on repeat. That's my Zuko/Mai break up song in my head, as told from Mai's POV. THIS WILL HELP, I PROMISE! I can send it if you don't already have it. Also, for more break up music for this fic in general, check out my FST for the 'It couldn't last' challenge. Lots of songs from male and female POVs.
(why do we never use "said" but always "like"? I mean maybe your English is better than mine but I find using "said" in spoken conversation/spontaneous commenting feels weird. Even though "said" is usually more correct than "like.")
It's pure slang, babe. I try not to say it at work, because it makes me sound unprofessional. I think IRL I balance between 'was like' & 'was all' vs. 'said' about 50/50.
For the internet, I'm not concerned about how I sound, but you're right that it's interesting how, when it doesn't matter, I often choose "was like" which takes longer to type than "said".
part 2
Date: 2009-06-08 08:50 am (UTC)Zuko should hire Katara. WHY DOES NO ONE WRITE THIS??? Seriously, its better than her being an emissary for the water tribe. It brings her into his circle while providing a legit reason for her to be there. She's got plenty of skills, too. She could teach waterbending to the children of mixed families from occupations (or the children of rape and desertion), since there's no way through all that conquering and those prisons of southern waterbenders like Hama that there wasn't sex being had, either willing or not. There are surely both water and earthbending children in hiding in the Fire Nation.
...Or she could study the FN's medical texts while acting as the Royal Physician, sort of an internship to learn about FN medicine while expanding her own skill at healing.
6. I think that Katara is wise enough and saavy enough (and harsh enough) to know that if there's a point in their relationship timeline where her presence hurts Aang's development to the point where she thinks he'd trigger without her, that she would not sit on the problem. She would figure out a way to fix him, either by forcing him to deal with it without her, or by some other means. She wouldn't talk herself into staying with him as a guard dog. Katara loves Aang the boy but she believes in Aang the Avatar, and I think she will always put the Avatar first. Your concern here doesn't really apply, because Katara is not self-punishing enough or timid enough to stick with him as a control mechanism. She'd ignore it for a while, but eventually she'd admit it to herself, and then she'd attack the problem, no matter the potential cost to their relationship.
7. So I guess thatâs what I mean about being âdamn sure,â from her end, because it could be disastrous for both of themâso I donât see Katara leaving Aang unless she knows Zuko wants her.
FULL STOP! That is your problem right there.
You're making Katara a person who decides her life around boys. That is not Katara. Katara's priorities include protecting and aiding the Avatar, helping her people, promoting peace and freedom for every single person she meets, and being the best waterbender she can. If all that happens while she's with Aang, as much of it does in the series, great. But she would not put herself in a position where her whole life (where she lives, with whom, what she does) is dependent on which boy likes her the most, and if she has another boy waiting on the backburner in case the first boy doesn't work out.
Think of it this way: We already know from the awkward kiss on Ember Island (and earlier eps) that Katara doesn't do things she's not ready for. In fact, Katara controls her life and her relationships in precise ways, and she knows what's right for her. Now, Katara is sixteen. She's deciding if she wants to get married, if she wants to be a healer or a warrior or the Avatar's assistant or something else. Katara is going to decide on something that will be right for her--and she will maneuver her relationships around that choice. ESPECIALLY with Aang, as she knows that she controls their relationship and whatever she picks, he will probably want to follow unless she decides that sending him away is part of her choice.
ETA: In fact, Katara's control of her relationships and her persistent stubbornness in doing what she believes to be right or best is something that could backfire for her later, or something that Zuko could call her on. If she goes to the FN for a reason (a mission, a job, whatever) and then finds herself starting to really become attached to Zuko, that might throw off her plans. Put her off kilter. Force her to realize that sometimes love isn't something you can put off til next month or next year or when all the problems are solved, because the problems are never completely solved, and that's life.
Re: part 2
Date: 2009-06-10 04:49 pm (UTC)6. *nodsnods*
7. YES I KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT UP FOR ME I think coming up with something else for her to do will be v.v. helpful to working all this out.
I think another part of my problem is just knowing that breaking up Aang and Katara is going to awful and painful and horrible to write and I don't want to do that because I do love Aang and breaking them up after a lot of time is just going to make it worse.
*Of course then I started going, while I can totally see them sending Katara out to do something like that, does that actually make it a good idea? Because honestly, Katara's more of a leader than she is a diplomat, right? She's passionate and headstrong and not always that good at compromising.** So then I was thinking that Sokka would actually make a better diplomat, because he's got the charm and the engineering make-sense-of-things to go with it, and now it's like, can I please have a Sokka/Suki: Diplomatic Emissary fic?
**This however will play perfectly into my fic, because things do end up getting worse (generally due to Evil Third Party's involvement), but I love the idea of Katara royally screwing it up. And it fits in with your ETA.
Re: part 2
Date: 2009-06-10 06:09 pm (UTC)*I'm LOLing that you mention this about Katara's leadership skills, because I've never mentioned it in reviews because fic does it so often, but: I think Katara would be a terrible diplomat. Diplomats and negotiators have to be subtle, have to concede and steal and trade and bargain and be wily and slithery and yet always keep a clear goal in mind. They have to think in the long term--years or decades long term. Iroh would be a good diplomat, as would Mai, and if you gave him 15 years of education and life experience, so would Sokka. Katara...Katara could be a diplomat at 50, after she's lived for a long time, had a husband and some kids to negotiate raising, and basically gotten all her aggression out in favor of patience.
In the season 2 finale, I noticed that Katara stayed to advice the generals while Sokka took The Invasion Plan to the Water Tribes to share that information with them. Even though it was Sokka's plan, that right there show's Katara as action person and Sokka as information and cooperation person. =)
**And here's the crux of the other problem. If it goes from bad to worse on this trip, then that means your main story plot takes place in the EK. Which means the Katara/Zuko romance has to take place during this timeline as well.
What I suggested in my other comments below about Katara working for Zuko... that was more on the idea that your plot involved her leaving Aang to go to the Fire Nation, which would involve the romance mostly happening *after* the EK plot where diplomacy goes wrong.
So back to your original question: if the adventure in the EK is the plot, and romance needs to happen over this plotline, that's a fairly short amount of time. A few weeks? A month? You have to use that time to a) break up Zuko/Mai, b) break up Katara/Aang, c) get Zuko and Katara together. That's a hell of a lot to force your characters through. The only fic I've seen actually succeed at that was 'A Matter of Honor' but it involved everyone cheating on everyone and pre-story involvement for Katara and Zuko.
I have no solution to that. I guess to help you brainstorm this further, I'd need to know if you intended to make it all happen in this short time in the EK, or if the EK thing was just the beginning of the story.
You might also want to consider moving the diplomatic plot to the Fire Nation. It could still be about EK issues, but the meeting physically takes place in the FN. That would allow you to stretch out events over a longer period, and more easily justify Zuko offering Katara a position/job/title/mission if she's already proved something she's better at than diplomacy.
Re: part 2
Date: 2009-07-21 04:26 am (UTC)You were basically right in that the EK plot can only accomplish A and B, which was really all I wanted to do in that one--well, and [re-]introduce Zutara UST. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand actually I think the rest of this comment would be better placed in replying to a different comment, so I'll end it here.
part 3
Date: 2009-06-08 08:51 am (UTC)See #5. Give Katara a place in the world where she is defined by herself, and then let the romance develop from proximity. They're so freaking hot, it will! Don't worry about that. But if you don't want her to be the FL's girlfriend, don't make her the FL's girlfriend. Make her Master Katara, Waterbending Healer. Master Katara, leader of Zuko's armies. Master Katara, leader of the Southern Navy. Master Katara, Waterbending instructor for mixed children of the Fire Nation. Or of any nation. Hell, you can have her become the pastry cook for Iroh's tea shop. But don't let it be a gift from anyone--let it be her choice and something she deserves. Katara controls her own fate, and has since the moment she chose to help the Avatar against her grandmother and brother's wishes in the first episodes.
ETA 2: Something else to think about!
Aang has always picked Katara over duty. Will Katara pick Aang over duty? No. She didn't in season 1 when she got herself arrested and almost cost the Avatar his only waterbending teacher; she didn't when she dressed as the Painted Lady and blew up a town; and she didn't in the finale when she decided helping Zuko was a better use of her energy and skills than hunting down a recently-disappeared Aang (in reversed positions, Aang would have been scouring the coast for Katara.)
Part of this is that Katara has always trusted Aang's abilities and potential. Moreso than Aang does, in fact. But Aang has never been able to trust Katara to protect herself, and will abandon his duty to protect her. If, in the future, there's something that Katara feels she needs to do that doesn't coincide with supporting the Avatar (a mission, a job, whatever), I really do think she'll leave him to go do it anyway. Even if it hurts. It's why they're different people, and why Aang didn't understand Katara's behavior in Southern Raiders. Aang is the kind of person who will give up the world to save a loved one. Katara is the kind of person who will give up a loved one to save the world. Aang thinks you can have cake and pie. Katara sees the pie and knows it will hurt more than the cake but she can't have both. Both are valid life perspectives, but they don't necessarily work together, because it's hard to love someone who has different priorities than you and assigns different value to need vs. want.
...I know I used to have a kick-ass!Katara icon WHERE DID IT GO.
Date: 2009-06-10 04:56 pm (UTC)ETA2: *gushes meta love all over this*
*(Which, really, when you're on the verge of a breakup, is like the worst thing to be called, and it's a bazillion times worse when there's so many other things you could be too!)
Re: ...I know I used to have a kick-ass!Katara icon WHERE DID IT GO.
Date: 2009-06-10 05:59 pm (UTC)Person: Avatar Aang and his companion, Katara of the Southern Tribe.
Aang: *look nervously at Katara* Master Waterbender Katara.
Person: Of course, my apologies, Avatar.
Aang: *looks at Katara, happy again*
Katara: *scowling because 'companion' sounds code-word for 'consort' and because the guy didn't apologize to her, he apologized to Aang*
Aang: *confused why she's still scowling*
I suppose if I give her time to be something else before she becomes that [or at least before she becomes that publically], that would solve part of that problem
Yes. Do that. Have them flirt, a little unwillingly or unconsciously. Have a little tension. In fact, I'd say go as far as almost breaking the tension but not quite. Have them nearly kiss, or nearly have a moment, or nearly say something, then not. And then, suddenly things happen in a rush as Katara and Aang break up, the thing in the EK ends for better or worse (maybe for worse, and Katara's going to the FN is part of trying to fix what went wrong. or maybe it just ended), and Zuko offers Katara something to do in the FN. Or Iroh suggests it, maybe (because I don't think Zuko's that sensitive to see someone in need of a new life direction), but Zuko formally invites Katara to the Fire Nation to do something.
At this point, they have UST, but they have not kissed and are not dating. It's up-and-up, and both can reassure themselves that Katara is going for 'the right' reasons, not for something undefinable and borderline cheating.
This would give both characters a chance to step back from the escalating romance a bit so Katara could focus on her new place and they can not think about how they were attracted to each other when she was still dating Aang. It's a mental break, to try to be 'just friends' or whatever in their new professional relationship. And (Iroh's plan, he's shrewd) it will give Katara a chance to be seen and accepted without the taint or rumor of romantic connection to the FL. But, then, you can start to build up the attraction again. That means that when something does break--a kiss, a confession, a touch, a night--it will be more powerful because they will have been waiting for it subconsciously for a while, probably months.
PLOT SUMMARY TIEMZ
Date: 2009-07-21 04:46 am (UTC)while they're off frolicking around in the EK, they end up talking about their alternate identities--Blue Spirit and Painted Lady--which is going to be fun because I was never really into BS/PL fanfic [BS/Katara a la that one fic you wrote, on the other hand, totally hot), but here I could go more into the psychology of why they did it--and so Zuko can invite her to continue her Painted Lady work.
Yes! Katara can go back to the FN and help other villages that have been poisoned by industry! She can heal people, organize cleanup efforts, add commentary to the engineers' plans for fixing factories (which, okay, Sokka would be better at, but she can at least try?)--she can be an environmentalist.
(has this been done? I'm going to be so sad if this has been done before. Like, brokenhearted. I kind of want to run over to ff.net and post something that says NO ONE CAN TAKE THIS IDEA IT IS MINE I LOVE IT.)
post-that I'm still a little unsteady. I know what I would do if I could ignore plausibility/not have to work too hard at it. Katara does her work around the FN, occasionally checking in with Zuko, and on one such occasion of her being in the capital, Zuko finally gets a solid lead on Ursa's location (because Ozai's information was woefully out of date). So he needs to go find her, but his council (a bunch of old guys who have mostly accepted his rule--some are staunch supporters who came back from exiles of their own, some miss the glory days, one or two is just crazy) is in the middle of a deadlock on some big issue, so he's all conflicted, and finally he appoints Piandao (why? because I know his name, and because he's White Lotus, and because I just liked him--besides, he makes swords. He's gotta be good at balance and stuff like that) to watch over everything while he goes and finds his mother.
So Piandao, being in touch with Iroh
the crafty bastard, invites Katara to sit in on a council meeting, and then another one, and finally at one she just explodes and yells at everyone for being so dumb about this deadlock, and then he goes, "well, what would you do?" So next thing Katara knows she's being dragged into hammering out a compromise--she's an outside, well-respected figure, and in the meantime she's also getting some crash-course work in government. And then there would be stuff crossing over from Zuko to Katara and back, while they're going through these separate trials, kind of "even when they're not together they're influencing each other" stuff.and then in the end Zuko finds Ursa and takes her to Ba Sing Sei (it's practically peace summit time anyway), and the council hammers out a compromise, and as a reward Katara's offered a spot on the council.
("...but I'm from the Water Tribe!"
"It's all right. There's an old provision that allows for emissaries to serve as the Fire Lord's advisors--"
"Master Piandao, this is your handwriting."
"...the scrolls were very old. I just copied them.")
so after they assure her that she still has all her Water Tribe rights (and say things like "we need a young council member we can send on errands so the Fire Lord doesn't have to go himself"), she agrees, so the first errand they send her on is to go to the peace summit (because Piandao and Iroh have totes been cooking this up, with Jeong Jeong adding grumpy comments from the side), and she arrives and says, "hi, I'm a member of your council!" and Zuko goes "...
I think I love youMeet my mother."and then eventually they make out.
...
/summary
1 - I will do this point by point because I LOVE IT.
Date: 2009-07-21 05:21 am (UTC)Yes, omg, please please please. I've never seen someone write that. I'm sure war and industrialization has completely changed the high-population centers of the FN, and they'd ruined certain geological areas with industry (tis canon!), so it makes sense that someone needs to try and fix that. Either to transform the factories from making ships to making something useful, or to dismantle a large portion of the factories (half, right of the bat) and turn the local labor back to farming/agriculture.
The thing you need to be careful of--giving Katara something too big for her. Remember, she's not a scientist or a naturalist, and has no idea how to maintain land. Even in an older society, people knew about how to tend land, and alternate crops, etc etc. But Katara didn't grow up in the FN and has probably never farmed in her life, or lived in forests until this year. She probably doesn't even know half the stuff a regular kid in that climate knows.
I say go two ways... A) She is very good at one narrow skill, and that's something she's educated herself in the last two or three years, and that skill is one that travels. Something she could plausibly know without having studied it for a decade. The easiest is healing. But in terms of the environment...I'd say drinking water. Finding ways to clean up drinking water. Not the trees, not the ground, not the animals--the water. That's her area. Maybe she works with a group of scientists or biologists or geologists, who each try to figure out how to fix a collective ecosystem, or how to manipulate land so that water flows where/how they want. But Katara's job is to figure out how to get them clean drinking water or water for the crops. Canals, creeks, irrigation, natural rivers, whatev.
B) She could be a capable administrator--maybe this is more along the lines of what your fanfic needs. An administrator doesn't have to know all the science (but IRL, she ought to if she's any good), but can still make executive decisions about money allocation, policy, etc. In which case she needs a team or crew of scientists, naturalists, humanitarians, engineers, etc at her beck and call.
Both these roles should have titles. In one she's part of a team, in the other she's at the top of (but not one of) the team.
C) she could run around setting up hospitals and clinics with a big fat federal purse that Zuko gave her to, you know, set up public hospitals. For the people who've been poisoned by industry.
D) Katara is an environment/health/resources assessor. Because someone trusted needs to find out what is wrong and what's going on before Zuko can spend the treasury to fix it, right? I think this is something Katara can do that would be a sort of combination of A & B: she needs some help from engineers and scientists so that she identifies the correct problems, but she puts together the reports on what areas are the weakest, need the most help, need the most labor, etc.
Katara does her work around the FN, occasionally checking in with Zuko, and on one such occasion of her being in the capital,
I think she should write regular reports, maybe write personal letters, and check back every few months in person. She could also (hheeheee) be kinda spying on the populace for Zuko. Giving him her unbiased opinion of his territory and citizenry. Not just their opinions, but their health and their economic status.
2 - because I'm hear to tell you all the junk in my head
Date: 2009-07-21 06:06 am (UTC)finally he appoints Piandao (why? because I know his name, and because he's White Lotus, and because I just liked him--besides, he makes swords.
He should totally make Piandao his captain of the guard, or his Shogun, or whatever they're called, as soon as he's crowned. That means Piandao would be experienced, trusted, and already in place for this kind of thing three years later. ...NOW THIS IS CANON IN MY HEAD.
So Piandao, being in touch with Iroh the crafty bastard, invites Katara to sit in on a council meeting, and then another one, and finally at one she just explodes and yells at everyone for being so dumb about this deadlock,
This is where it gets delicate. We saw in the flashbacks that there council room or war room appears to have a very clear line between people at the table and everyone else (we didn't even see anyone else.) I'm assuming you're putting Katara AT the table, not observing it.
and then he goes, "well, what would you do?" So next thing Katara knows she's being dragged into hammering out a compromise--she's an outside, well-respected figure, and in the meantime she's also getting some crash-course work in government. ....and the council hammers out a compromise, and as a reward Katara's offered a spot on the council.
This is the part that's the trickiest, in my mind. You can do it, I'd love it, but really think through how and why you plan to do it. Personally, I'm very skeptical about any fic that puts any of the kids onto any country's permanent council if they're younger than 25.
I can't tell you what will work for you, but I can tell you what I, as a thinking reader, would need for me to believe that. (it's a totally awesome idea, but my brain will rebel if its not handled right, even though your concept of right might not be mine.)
The reason would have to be more than an award, more than just whim. Katara would need to be promoted to a new title (think of it like a president's cabinet), a title that justifies her being part of the council. A title that says not only does she have the right to be there--but that she has a purpose there beyond just providing one more voice in the melee. Her voice has to add something professionally unique. Maybe it's Minister of the Interior, or Minister of Natural Resources, or Minister of Waterways, or Minister of Public Health...all of which build on her previous experience. Or maybe her purpose is something more abstract, like Minister of Public Good (sounds very Dai Li...heh.)
But it has to be believable that a young person, even a highly intelligent and talented young person, can handle the post. If Katara finishes a year-long tour of the interior of the Fire Nation and comes back with an analysis of the landscape and natural resources and industrial status of the villages, with recommendations for each village, then that means she could realistically be Minister of Interior Resources, or something, because she'd have an up-to-date, broad perspective of the layout of the FN and its ore, water, woods, farming, refining centers, etc. She'd also know the relationships between the people and the land/farms/industry in each area. But she wouldn't, for example, know about public education level in the cities, or about trade and economics, or about unemployment rates in the capital, etc. Because Katara is totally new to the FN, she'd only know what she has been exposed to or had time to learn about. Whole swaths of their culture and laws would be utterly unknown to her. --Remember that, keep it as a challenge for her to meet and overcome. And one that doesn't happen with one victory, but with many small victories.
3 - last of my comments
Date: 2009-07-21 06:08 am (UTC)And then there would be stuff crossing over from Zuko to Katara and back, while they're going through these separate trials, kind of "even when they're not together they're influencing each other" stuff.
I love that stuff! I like the idea of them meeting in between all these events, and little things change every time, and they get more impressed with each other as they see each other progress...
and then in the end Zuko finds Ursa and takes her to Ba Sing Sei (it's practically peace summit time anyway), and the council hammers out a compromise,
Nice timing! Plus, Zuko would have to approve any new adviser.
so after they assure her that she still has all her Water Tribe rights (and say things like "we need a young council member we can send on errands so the Fire Lord doesn't have to go himself"),
OMG, a person of the Interior (such a vague, word, it's beautiful how it means anything you want) would be perfect for that. If she's already kind of that information person anyway, reporting on the state of his kingdom.
she agrees, so the first errand they send her on is to go to the peace summit (because Piandao and Iroh have totes been cooking this up, with Jeong Jeong adding grumpy comments from the side), and she arrives and says, "hi, I'm a member of your council!" and Zuko goes "...I think I love you Meet my mother."
I guess it could be a surprise if Piandao found some very old law that made it possible to instate her without the FL if the FL was on sabbatical. If the Piandao deemed there to be an urgent need to fill the post. Or maybe he almost created the post for her--it was an old job, a seat no one had held since before the war, and Piandao or Iroh dug it up from old law books and opened it up again.
....and making out, please?? I LOVE MAKING OUT.
Zuko: why'd you have to sit on my gorram council?? I can't make out with you if you're my adviser!
Katara: why not?
Zuko: It's wrong. It's icky. It might be illegal.
Katara: I'll show you my breasts.
Zuko: ...
Katara: ...
Zuko: If I marry you, it won't be illegal or weird.
Katara: I'm not ready to marry anyone! And besides, I just got those old guys to almost like me. If I marry you, that will ruin everything.
Zuko: Um.
Katara: Breasts. Say it with me: breasts.
Zuko: Your argument is compelling, but crude. You're going to need to get a lot better at diplomacy to sit on my council.
Katara: BREASTS.
Zuko: Okay, fine, I want to see your breasts more than I want to see the sun tomorrow, okay? YOU WIN. Let's go make out.
Katara: ^___^
...overall, I'd totally read your fic. I love the ideas you have. I hope some of these suggestions are helpful, and by all means drop the ones that aren't!
Don't get discouraged, don't get frustrated. I'm looking forward to your post-series masterpiece!
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-08 08:59 am (UTC)On #5 again, I'd love to see a story where Katara goes to the FN to learn their healing methods and share the Water Tribe healing methods (that perhaps she learned in the last 2-3 years), and while she's studying that she and the Fire Lord fall in love.
That doesn't have to be your story, of course, but I think it would be a very sweet one. I wish other Z/K fanficcers would realize that there's so much Katara loves to do that make her interesting beyond her relationships.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 05:02 pm (UTC)Heeheehee. I remember I started off shipping Zutara because it was just--OMG NECKLACE, without knowing anything about the characters, and then watching more and really coming to love Zuko and wanting him to be happy, but also not being really sure about Katara--was I just shipping them because she was there? And then I saw "Imprisoned," and watched her give that huge rousing speech to the prisoners, and said, "Hot damn, this girl will make an awesome queen," because she independently kicks so much butt.
Anyway, thanks for all your comments--you've really helped clear away a lot of the muddle. Now, if only I could come up with the actual plot-plot of the thing...
:-D
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 06:30 pm (UTC)That's when I really started to like Katara, in that episode. I felt so bad for her speech being ignored! (I have an embarrassment squick) But then they roused in the end, so it's all good.
Anyway, thanks for all your comments--you've really helped clear away a lot of the muddle. Now, if only I could come up with the actual plot-plot of the thing...
Glad to help! I hope one of the things I mentioned in my recent replies will help you settle that exact question. Or at least lock down parts of it.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-08 01:56 pm (UTC)It also seemed to me that Zuko and Katara had chemistry from the gitgo, it's just that they defined it as 'enemy' for so long they still need time to get accustomed to 'ally.'
this icon is totally appropriate to your character sketch of Zuko, but not really to my comment
Date: 2009-06-08 07:37 pm (UTC)But, as I typed that out to you, a little voice in my head said "Wait, Audrey, think about what you're saying. Aang will be 14. 14. And he's a boy. He's not going to mature that much in one year, savior of the world or not. If anything, he'll just become even less mature, if we're talking typical teenage guys."
Argh! That seems to be a problem. The age/maturity thing. He's just so into Katara, but he's just sooooo young! It's like, come on, Aang, how many people in the world find their one-true-love at 12 years old? And just because you're the Avatar and you're already so speshul doesn't mean you get that, too.
It seems I just can't be that nice to Aang.
I meant to help you, and... yeah.
Anyway, if you get to the point with Katara and Zuko that you can get them together, maybe just play around with a more mature Aang. Take Mike and Bryan at their word, that he's grown up a lot, and after a little spazzing, let him work through it and see it's for the best.
Re: this icon is totally appropriate to your character sketch of Zuko, but not really to my comment
Date: 2009-06-08 09:46 pm (UTC)Re: this icon is totally appropriate to your character sketch of Zuko, but not really to my comment
Date: 2009-06-10 05:04 pm (UTC)If anything, I'm at least going to give Aang a growth spurt. :-b
this is my song for the asking
Date: 2009-06-08 07:58 pm (UTC)You see I wanted to love you baby, but neither you nor I'd been loved before. I thought I could change the world if I held you high enough. Truth is, I couldn't hold you up at all, and I sure ain't gonna hold you down
Go here and on the right sidebar, listen to "Prettiest Tree on the Mountain". Maybe it will inspire you.
Listen to this guy's other stuff while you're at it. He is wonderful!!
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-08 09:45 pm (UTC)*feeds the bunny*
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 05:10 pm (UTC)"Katara," Zuko said, "come with me and we'll rule the world! The Fire Nation part of the world," he added hastily.
"Katara," Haru said, "come with me and we'll have a huge family of earthbenders!"
"Katara," Random Water Tribe Boy said, "come with me and we'll rule the reunited Water Tribes!"
"Katara," Iroh said, sitting in a chair in the corner of the room, sipping tea and watching the four boys beg from their knees while she stared down at them in bemusement, "come be my pastry cook."
Katara looked over at him. "Do I get to eat the leftovers?"
"But of course, my dear."
"Hell yes, I'll be your pastry cook!"
"But--" Aang said.
"Katara--" Zuko started.
"Just shut up," she said, and used the water from a nearby fountain to freeze their mouths closed.
Iroh climbed to his feet. "Shall we?" he said, offering her his arm.
She accepted with a smile. "Iroh," she said, as they walked out of the room, "this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 06:38 pm (UTC)She accepted with a smile. "Iroh," she said, as they walked out of the room, "this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."
Zuko stared at his uncle and the woman he might kind of almost sort of want to marry. A lot. He didn't know what to say to this outcome, which he hadn't planned for at all.
Aang looked after them, and began to wring his hands together and pace. "This is so bad! Why would she say no? How could she say no?"
Haru sighed.
Random glared at the backs of Iroh and Katara, and "muttered" loudly, "Well, if all she wanted was food, I could have offered her that. I can fish better than some old man."
Zuko stood up from his knees and shouted at the retreating couple, "Just so you know, Katara, I have tea with Uncle every week. I'll see you on Tuesday!"
The other three boys looked at him. He shrugged, and said, "I don't know about you, but I'm going home. Later."
this looked like it needed continuing and what the hell, I'm bored.
Date: 2009-06-10 07:14 pm (UTC)---
Being a pastry chef was a lot harder than Katara originally accounted for. Mind you, it still wasn't that hard, but she forgot to figure in the fact that people would be ordering her pastries, and when you added other people into the mix it never ended well.
Like, for example, today she had one customer who wanted green tea in the icing and another who didn't want icing at all and another who was allegeric to eggs which were in everything so that caused a massive headache and---
She dropped the plate of scones she was carrying. Or at least she would have, had not a certain someone ninja'd down to save most of them from their germaphobic doom.
"Zuko!" She yelled, her face beet red, part in embarassment and part in anger. "What are you doing here? I already told you no! No means no you jerk!"
"I didn't come here for you." He said, setting the plate of scones on the nearby counter. "I'm always in Ba Sing Sei on Tuesdays. I have tea with Uncle and I usually meet with the Earth King since I'm here anyway."
He grabbed a scone and stuffed half of it in his mouth. "Mmm custumrd mmm ma favwite." He liked the custard off of his fingers before sashaying down to a table where his jasmine tea was already waiting.
"I didn't come here for you, Katara." He restated as he sat down. "That's just an added bonus."
Re: this looked like it needed continuing and what the hell, I'm bored.
Date: 2009-06-10 07:20 pm (UTC)And then he looked so pitiful and adorable standing there in shock, hand held to his burning cheek that she just jumped him right then and there and they made out and everyone was happy.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 07:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 09:34 pm (UTC)*hands you the shiny Internet*
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-09 03:11 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-09 05:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-09 05:39 am (UTC)i'll pass on the share bear, though. I like Katara looking badass.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-09 05:54 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-09 06:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 05:11 pm (UTC)p.s. awesome icon is awesome (bear or no bear). is it gankable?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-11 05:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-09 05:13 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 05:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-10 07:16 pm (UTC)